In recent months, "Face on Mars" researcher Richard Hoagland has claimed in public speeches and radio interviews that he's acquired photos and "insider testimony" proving NASA knowledge of massive extraterrestrial artifacts on the moon. While Hoagland is passionate in defending his data, many critics feel his claims are ill-founded.

However, a new eyewitness not associated with Hoagland also claims to have been shown clear NASA photos of structures and machinery on the moon. Writing in the June/July issue of the newsletter "Houston Sky," industrial engineer Vito Saccheri says he arranged in 1979 to view an incredible set of photos at the NASA Space Center in Houston. The photos showed beyond the slightest doubt, Saccheri says, that the moon is littered with alien structures.

But is Saccheri a reliable witness? "Houston Sky" editor Gayle Nesom says, "Vito is one of the few people whose story I could accept based just on his word... Credibility is a given in Vito's work. The success of his business -- he owns a technical investigations company -- rests on expertise, reputation and integrity... As someone whose advice I have relied on over the last two years, he has been rational and dispassionate, conservative in his ufological assumptions, and utterly dependable. To me, he is as credible as they come."

Saccheri says he first looked into the claim of moon structures after meeting another engineer named Lester Howes in 1979. Howes showed Saccheri a book titled "Somebody Else Is On the Moon," written by a former NASA scientist named George H. Leonard. Leonard went so far as to claim that President Kennedy's historic initiative to put Americans on the moon before 1970 was driven by a series of secret discoveries made from earth-based telescopes during the 1950s, virtually proving activity on the moon. Leonard was a photo analyst for NASA and argued that because NASA space missions were publicly funded, the public had a right to see the photo evidence. On his own, he published a number of photos in his book, but they were so small that details were blurry. However, he described what was visible in the huge original prints, and he published the identifying code numbers of the photos.

After reading Leonard's book, Saccheri agreed to go with Lester Howes to Houston's NASA headquarters and ask to see the photos.

In the "Houston Sky" article, Saccheri details many days of run-around and negotiation he and Howes went through with NASA officials. It seems that no one had ever asked to see those photos before. It seems that NASA had to check with someone in Langley, Virginia. But persistence, the fact that both Saccheri and Howes were credible engineers, and perhaps the letter of the law, all came together at last; and the two men found themselves in NASA's photo archive, said at that time to house over two million images. The librarian, a man named Roger, was apparently impressed that Saccheri and Howes had made it through a process designed to turn the curious away. In the end, he provided access to materials even more startling than the photos.

What follows is quoted, with permission, directly from Saccheri's "Houston Sky" article.

"Roger announced that the photos were ready for our inspection. There were, however, strict rules: we were to get three eight-hour business days. We were not allowed pens, pencils, paper, calculators, camera, or recording devices of any kind. Nor could we be left alone with the photos. We were allowed only the book and a magnifying loupe. We would be escorted in and out for lunch and bathroom breaks. If we agreed to these terms, he said, we could begin at nine o'clock the next morning. We arrived at eight.

"This time, we were escorted in by two men. We found five extra-long conference toom tables set up in a U shape. We had expected to find only the pictures listed in Leonard's book. To our amazement, there were thousands of photos...

"The photos were huge, approximately 32 by 24 inches, with a dull grey, almost dull-black look. On the back of each, technical information was recorded, such as the probe's height above the moon's surface while it was taking the picture, the angle of approach, and the location of the sun in relation to the capsule...

"To this day, I can remember these views: A boulder that seemed to have been rolled uphill, leaving its tracks in the side of the hill; obvious machinery on the surface, showing bolted sections; three dilapidated 'bridges' crossing a chasm that reminded me of the Grand Canyon; pipe fittings that looked like four-way Ts (or Xz) that could be seen in every photo, some with their ends turned up or down as they hung over the edge of a crater; three surprising pyramids that prompted me later to closely study the Egyptian Giza pyramid complex; apparent pipelines criss-crossing the surface, running to and from craters; a UFO rising from the surface and photographed directly above a crater; and perhaps the most memorable, the unmistakable figure of a rectangular structure placed squarely in the biggest crater pictured -- the structure looked either very old or under construction, but the crater had to be miles wide, and the camera angle gave a perfect three-dimensional view.

"The clarity and resolution were unlike that of anything I had seen before or since, and I shudder to think that this was only the beginnings of the spy-in-the-sky technology that has evolved since then...

"On our last day...as I was escorted back to the main room, I noticed a false panel that was slightly ajar and peeked inside. Floor-to-ceiling bookshelves were filled with three-ring binders. Roger volunteered that most of the binders were filled with the details of NASA's scientific experiments conducted in space. The rest, he said, were simply transcripts of the manned space flights, including the moon landings. Since he had gotten to know us over the three days and had enjoyed seeing the photos himself, he gave me a wink and a nod and allowed me to enter the room unescorted...

"I decided to browse some transcripts and flipped casually through a few... Then my eyes caught it: 'Houston, we've got a bogey at two o'clock.' And there was more: 'Roger that, Apollo. Switching to alpha. Roll eight degrees and begin sequence...'

"Though I knew instinctively what it meant, I couldn't believe what I was reading. I raced through the pages and other mission transcripts and found similar dialogue:

"'Mission Control, we've got Santa Claus coming over the hill...'

"'Roger, Apollo. Hold your fix. Switching bravo. Do you copy?'

"'Roger, Houston. Bravo link...'

"These guys were reporting UFO activity, but I couldn't remember ever hearing this during live broadcasts of lunar missions in '69 and '70. I was too dumbfounded to say a word and too scared to tell Les or Roger... we had no clearance to see these documents...

"When I met moon photo researcher Marvin Czarnick in 1995, I learned that he had helped develop some of the technical systems used at NASA... He knew that code words like 'alpha' and 'bravo' referred to special switching stations around the country that 'switched' broadcast reception away from Houston and Mission Control directly to CIA headquarters in Langley. This was my missing puzzle piece. I knew then for certain who it was that had the master list of photographs...

"That the moon could be occupied by others who periodically visit the earth makes perfect sense to me. I remember in the 1960s, after President Kennedy mobilized NASA, that the talk was about beating the Russians to the moon and using it as a station, or stepping stone, to the stars. In those days, there were great debates on who would get the mining and mineral rights...

"Today, we no longer talk about using the moon as a base of any kind. Instead, we talk about using space stations. Why?"

[Editor's Note: The only space mission to the moon in the past 20 years was the recent highly classified, Defense Department funded Clementine unmanned probe, which photographed the entire surface of the moon using the latest technology. Almost none of those photos have been released to public view. Clementine is the only known Defense Department mission ever to leave earth orbit.

ISCNI*Flash thanks Vito Saccheri and "Houston Sky" editor Gayle Nesom for the preceding article. "Houston Sky" is one of the best newsletters currently published in this field. Annual subscription (six issues) is $15. Researchers may request complimentary copies. For further information, write to:

Houston Sky,

P.O. Box 1718,

Bellaire, TX 77402.


by Michael Lindemann

ISCNI includes in its field of study claims of human communication with other terrestrial life forms. Researchers agree that gorillas and chimps are the most intelligent land-based animals, and some individuals of these species have shown a limited ability to communicate verbally with the aid of computers. Horses, on the other hand, are not generally considered good candidates for human-style communication (Mr. Ed notwithstanding). Now, however, an innovative trainer says he's learned to communicate horse-style, with amazing results.

Monty Roberts grew up with horses. His father bred and trained horses. As a very young boy, Monty watched how his father and other trainers broke the horses. And Monty thought the idea of "breaking" a horse was wrong. At the tender age of seven, he tried something different. Entering a corral with an unbroken horse -- a terribly dangerous thing for a young boy to do -- he tried to communicate with the horse. He noticed that the horse responded to body language. If Monty squared his shoulders and fixed his gaze on the animal, it would bolt and run. If he turned his shoulders away and looked down, the horse would immediately stop running. In no time at all, the horse apparently sensed that the boy meant no harm and posed no danger. Then something extraordinary happened. The horse approached young Monty Roberts from behind and touched its muzzle to his shoulder.

For the first time, Monty had accomplished what he now calls "joining up." He found he could now touch the horse in ways no unbroken horse ever allows. He concluded that the idea of "breaking" was not only unfair, but unnecessary.

When his father found out, he was furious. Monty was not to try such crazy shenanigans again, ever! And so, Monty waited until he was old enough to work on his own with horses, away from his father's ranch. Having carefully watched many horses in the intervening years, Monty was sure he could "join up" with any unbroken horse.

Today, he's proved his point on over 8,000 horses, including some that were to be put to death because they were judged by their owners to be unbreakable "killer" horses.

Recently I joined a group of about 50 people invited to Monty Roberts' "Flag Is Up Farm" near Solvang, California, to see Monty in action. I was told in advance that I would not believe my eyes. That turned out to be true.

Monty is a stocky, ruddy, cheerful man. He speaks in simple sentences, with self-deprecating humor. His work with horses represents not just a technique, but a deep-rooted philosophy. "It is wrong for a human to demand anything from anybody -- whether animal or human," he says.

Breaking horses by force, he says, goes back thousands of years. Today, horse trainers assume there's no other way to begin the training process. It takes up to six weeks to fully break a horse, which includes getting it to take a saddle, then a bridle, and finally a rider. A horse spirited enough to become a racing champion might fight the breaking process all the way. After six weeks of dangerous and painful struggle, the horse is finally ready for its first day on the track.

Monty puts a saddle, a bridle and a rider on an unbroken horse ...in one hour. The horse goes to the track, willing and ready to train, the next day.

Monty says he has learned "language Equus." It is a body language as reliable, in horse terms, as the spoken word among humans. I watched, with my mouth wide open and my breath tight in my chest, as Monty "joined up" with a spirited young filly in the corral. As he worked, he told us what the horse would do each step of the way. "In a moment, it will drop its head to the ground, a signal it's ready to pay attention." Moments later, the horse dropped its head to the ground, even as it kept running around the ring. "Now, when I turn my shoulders away, it will stop and look at me." He turned his shoulders. The horse stopped instantly in its tracks, and looked at Monty, now turned three-quarters away. Monty glanced a little over his shoulder, took a step or two away, glanced again, then away. "Now, it will come." The horse came, moments later, and rested its muzzle on his shoulder.

"Now, I can touch this horse -- first along its neck, above and below, where the big predators attack; then along its belly, even the genitals; then the front legs, lifting each one a little off the ground; and finally, the back legs -- this, for the horse, is the scariest of all. When he lets me lift that back leg off the ground, we've made it." And so it goes.

Five mintes later, he places the saddle. "The horse might buck a bit. But normally, you couldn't put that saddle on for a week, and then it might buck like crazy." The horse bucks once, twice. Then stands still. Monty touches its nose. The horse is fine.

Minutes later, he places the bridle. To it are attached long ropes which allow Monty to guide the horse with the bridle, like remote control. The horse runs for ten minutes, at first against the bridle, but soon turning left and right, then stopping, and finally backing up, as Monty deftly handles the ropes. The horse learns quickly, and seems genuinely eager to cooperate. This is, for me, one of the biggest mysteries. As charming and loving and talented as Monty is, I still don't see WHY the horse decides to cooperate. I leave later that day still not knowing. But I certainly saw it happen.

Finally, a rider mounts the horse, a typical tiny jockey in full racing attire, a man who clearly loves the horse like Monty loves the horse. It only takes a few minutes. The rider, in the saddle, takes the reins and rides the horse out of the ring.

The entire process took about 50 minutes.

It would be easy to explain this as a simple trick. The horse is obviously trained, and Monty is a complete fraud. But not so. There are several people in the audience that day who have brought problem horses to Monty before, including one couple who had decided to send a gorgeous animal to the glue factory after it almost killed a world-class trainer. Monty put a rider on that horse, not only saving its life but giving it a chance to become a champion.

Not long ago, the British royal family heard of Monty's work. Queen Elizabeth invited Monty to come to London to demonstrate his "join up" method. Before an audience of invited royalty, Monty put a rider on an unbroken horse. Scoffing was heard amongst the crowd -- the Queen is pulling a prank at the expense of her guests. The Queen, not amused, challenged the assembled princes, dukes and barons to bring their own horses. Another day of demonstration was scheduled; in the end, mouths hung open all around. The Queen pledged to support Monty's work.

If it's not a trick, then one might suppose Monty is a shaman. After all, he did this spontaneously at the age of seven. But no, he says, others have learned his method simply by watching him work on videotape. It is therefore teachable and reproducible. It could revolutionize the horse training industry.

Monty Roberts says that humans and horses can communicate through language Equus, a body language older than human history. He has demonstrated the practical value of such communication: virtually immediate rapport between horse and trainer, vastly decreased pain to the horse, vastly decreased danger to the trainer, vastly decreased training time and cost.

Perhaps not surprisingly, most horse trainers who hear of Monty's work assume he's a fraud. Most don't even want to discuss it. Everyone knows you've got to break a horse. Everyone knows it takes weeks.

Monty Roberts can be reached by regular mail at: Flag Is Up Farm

P.O. Box 86

Solvang, CA 93464


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Fresno area businessman Joe Thor issued a press release on June 23 stating

that he had offered to pay the cost of a lie detector test for NASA engineeer and influential UFO skeptic James Oberg regarding Oberg's actual knowledge of UFO phenomena, and Oberg had agreed.

Oberg appears frequently on television offering skeptical analysis of UFO claims. Among UFO enthusiasts, he is widely regarded as the "heir apparent" to the post of "Arch UFO Debunker" long held by Phil Klass.

Thor's announcement included a series of exchanges between him and Oberg that were posted on America Online in OMNI's Antimatter message board under "Crashed Saucers," starting June 11. Portions of those postings follow:

James Oberg: "Whenever people have made allegations of my personal dishonesty in the past, I've repeated my offer to take any standard veracity test (the kind whose results they trust when the subject is Travis Walton or somebody like that), at their expense, and I promise to pay if I fail. No takers in twenty years, which is suggestive evidence for their sincerity."

Joe Thor (Video Dog): "Mr. Oberg, will you take a lie detector test at my expense?"

Oberg: "Yes, I will (surprise!!).

Thor: "Ok, I'll pay for the test. But, since I'm paying, I'll pick the examiner (to be mutually agreed upon).

Oberg: "What date do we have in mind? What will be the subject of the un-verification attempt (i.e., what is to be disproven about me)? Who will hold the expense money (including my own time and travel), paid in advance?

Thor: "Give me a couple of available times... Then, I will select an examiner in your area...and let you know in advance who you're going to so you can check out his credentials... I will pay the examiner, in advance, his usual fee.

"I propose that...you'll go into the examination knowing all the questions to be asked... "...you want me to pay your expenses too?...how much do you want? Let us know and I'll send it to you before the test. Three days after the above posting, Thor distributed his news release. It began:


Unfortunately, Thor's characterization of Mr. Oberg as "NASA's UFO Spin Doctor" struck Mr. Oberg as a low blow. Oberg's next posting read as follows:

Oberg: "I thought that 'NASA Spin Doctor' was an accusation you were trying to verify, not an assumption which was a condition to my appearing in your exercise. Of course I cannot agree to appear under a lie (YOUR lie)."

Thus it appears that Mr. Oberg will not take a lie detector test funded by Joe Thor. However, it also appears that Oberg remains open to such a test, as long as the would-be sponsor refrains from overtly disrespectful rhetoric during the making of arrangements. Is there another potential sponsor reading this story?

James Oberg can be reached via email at: JamesOberg@aol.com His snailmail address is:

James Oberg

Rt 2 Box 350

Dickinson, TX 77539


* Be sure to visit the ISCNI Booth at the MUFON International Symposium July 7-9 at the Red Lion Hotel, Seattle Airport in Seattle. For symposium information, call 206-488-3805. If you wish, you can join members and friends of ISCNI for dinner on Saturday, July 8. To reserve your place at the table, contact DianeOmega@aol.com

Thanks for reading the ISCNI*Flash!

Michael Lindemann


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The entire text of ISCNI*Flash is copyright 1995 by ISCNI, Inc. Permission granted to reproduce and redistribute on the condition that the entire text is included without alteration or omission